Curse

Triamn · Mar 25, 2006, 06:32 AM // 06:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Lost

besides gaile only said that there will be about 30 skills duplicated. 30 out of 300 is 270 new skills, good enough for me.

Actually, I believe those duplicates are in addition to the 300 skills. So like 330 skills total or whatever is duplicated (assuming 30).

Hella Good · Mar 25, 2006, 06:32 AM // 06:32

The whole idea of putting duplicate skills just to reach a desired number of 300 new skills to market to the public is something I would expect from a 3rd grade company, not Anet. Aparently, not anymore. And I really really really do not see any reason whatsoever not to include them in the core skills if what they wanted to achieve with this duplication is give the skills to both vet and new players. What now, are they gonna be doing this for future chapters? 800 new skills! Yea rite... I mean seriously... it's a dumb move.

Poison Ivy · Mar 25, 2006, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevin

Seissor you realize the ones they're replacing are Prophecy only skills, not everyone will own Prophecies and Factions..

Of course she doesn't, why else would this thread be created.

But if she does and she doesn't realise what it actually means...

Evan The Cursed · Mar 25, 2006, 06:57 AM // 06:57

The skills are in for one reasona nd one reason only:

Anet feels that doubling them up adds some strategic relevence.

It has nothing to do with "people who only buy prophecies"

Get over it, if they wanted that, they'd use a feature already in game: Core skills. Stop chewing out people who are simultaneously trying to critique Anet for vapid features masked as "strategy" and explain to you that the reason you are giving is false.

When someone says "the skills are in for people who don't buy prophecies" and Hella Good replies with "if that were true,t hey would use core skills" do not quote him and take his words out of context and revert back to the original, much more valid argument of strategy.

EternalTempest · Mar 25, 2006, 07:27 AM // 07:27

Magic The Gathering, to have more then 4 of the same type of card in your deck , you get the same spell with the differnet name and it does have advantages. Same thing here applies.

Silent Kitty · Mar 25, 2006, 10:17 AM // 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diablo™

Wow, I've seen people fuss about bad henchies, pvp, and bots... but this is by far the most irrelevant issue to boycott a game over.

I understand where it comes from. A brand new game can become very boring when one finds to many similarities of a game you have played already thoroughly.
Some overreact, but still a new game should be a new game and not a rip off.

Lexar · Mar 25, 2006, 10:43 AM // 10:43

Guild Wars stands or falls with the skills. It's the very core of the game. Of course people are going to be dissapointed if there's duplicate skills, because the new skills are for a lot of people the main reason to buy factions. And to be honest it's rather lame because we already have the core skills to give people overlapping skills, adding these duplicates really takes away from the initial enthousiasm a lot of people, including me, would have had.

jules · Mar 25, 2006, 11:00 AM // 11:00

If you take balancing issues into consideration, there can only be a limited amount of skills available in the game, expansion or not. However IMO it is quite likely that some duplicate skills will cause imbalances.

led-zep · Mar 25, 2006, 11:32 AM // 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lateralus

And if you dont like this you can go away.

This faction thing isnt going to be nearly as good as people are making it seem...

i think too many people are caught up in the excitement and hype and have yet to see that factions just doesnt seem that good.

i got bored of gw a long time ago and only play with friends so the thought of mre of exactly the same doesnt fill me with excitement, especially the leaning towards pvp, no thanks

Seissor · Mar 25, 2006, 12:12 PM // 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevin

Seissor you realize the ones they're replacing are Prophecy only skills, not everyone will own Prophecies and Factions..

Sprint
Healing Touch
Charm Animal

etc etc etc etc Prophecy skills considered CORE are available to Factions owners.

So Factions owners get sprint and you know etc etc core Proph. skills. So duplicating isn't ANET's method of addressing this issue.

I'd rather this duplicate skills be different in some way, say change adrenaline to energy, or marksmanhip as an attrib to expertise etc to actually make the duplicates at least unique stat wise.

Ex0dus · Mar 25, 2006, 01:05 PM // 13:05

I wont go so far as to say duplicating is a rip off or that theyre being lazy or etc, if they really didnt want to create anything different they would have left it at 270 (noone would be crying right now if there were 270 unique skills and no copies).

That being said though, I believe duplicates are a HUGE mistake. When you allow people to make multiples of various skills one of two things happen:

1. One of the skills becomes worthless (such a waste)
2. You detract from real strategy.

Allow me to explain:

When you begin to introduce duplicates, you begin total skill spam wars. No longer is it all about who can out think the other with various skills, its more about who can spam those duplicate skills quicker. Imagine how many skills wouldnt even get consideration when you can spam duplicate cheap skills twice as fast as before, people can only output so many skills in a set amount of time so in a 30 second interval instead of getting:

(skill 1, skill 2, skill 3, skill 4, skill 1, skill 5, skill 2, skill 6)

you get

(skill 1, copy of skill 1, skill 2, skill 3, skill 1, copy of skill 1, etc.)

Guess what just happened? You just basically convinced people that spamming is the new name of the game and you need fewer (real) skills to make an effective build. Those skills that had some marginal use before as time fillers are now useless.

And before people go to say, well the new duplicates arent spammable, then refer to problem number 1.

Anet, take them out. Please. I dont care if you come up with new ones or not, just dont turn pvp into a double skill spam fest.

-Ex0dus

Wexnar · Mar 25, 2006, 01:19 PM // 13:19

Does the new skills stay without buying factions and after betaweekend?

cagan · Mar 25, 2006, 01:34 PM // 13:34

I feel Triamm's post is worth backing up .. gailes quote reads to me that there are 300 unique skills .. plus 30 duplicates.

Yanman.be · Mar 25, 2006, 01:43 PM // 13:43

i think it's nice to have a copy of dodge up..good for flag runners ^^

mjd001 · Mar 25, 2006, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Its a MMORPG - They'll change a lot so chill out.

NoChance · Mar 25, 2006, 02:43 PM // 14:43

from what I understand, Anet promised 25 new skills for each profession, and there are indeed 25 new skills for each profession -- the repeats thus can be thought of as free bonuses.

as for the the question of why repeats... i think the main reason is to allow two copies of these skills in your skillbar... after all, otherwise, Anet could have just put skills in both prophecies as well as factions without renaming (but not in the core set because they may not want the same skill in ch 3)

SziP · Mar 25, 2006, 03:03 PM // 15:03

They did this so if people who purchase only factions will get some of the same skillz. geez stop throwing dirt at anet.

Seissor · Mar 25, 2006, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by SziP

They did this so if people who purchase only factions will get some of the same skillz. geez stop throwing dirt at anet.

No. Sprint is still sprint, they have given factions players some prophecy skills without renaming them. And then they have given them some renamed prophecy skills.

I personally, am not crying or whinging of a boycott, im getting Factions. What I am annoyed with, is this is kinda lazy attitude towards skills. Many skills in factions and prophecies outright SUCK! they are just gimmicks. It was only in recent updates some prophecy skills got boosted.

And the whole fleeing issue also makes many skills useless.

With fan forums churning out hundreds of well planned well balanced and much needed skill ideas its a bit surprising to see the lack of skill diversity.

Axe gets bugger all good skills in factions, the only good one is an elite. And some skills are listed under a certain attrib when you cannot improve/worsen them by changing that attrib so they should be under no attrib.

Loviatar · Mar 25, 2006, 04:16 PM // 16:16

HI PEOPLE

HAVE YOU HEARD OF SKILLS CALLED

*ECHO*
AND
*ARCANE ECHO*

OMG DUPLICATE SKILLS EXIST ALREADY.

YOU HAVE ALL THE NEW SKILLS THEY SAID YOU WOULD GET AND TOSSED IN A FEW EXTRAS TO USE AS WELL.

WHY THE COMPLAINTS?

Quote:

Gaile Gray
ArenaNet

Noting the concern about skills, here's a bit of info: There are 300 new skills in Factions; they are available during this event. Plus, in order to give players the opportunity to sort of "double up" on a few selected skills, about 30 are offered in duplicate form.

Hope that is helpful info.

Now, go out there and try out that doubling up stuff and report back.

Panacea · Mar 25, 2006, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

Lol? In other words: we are too lazy to come up with 300 new UNIQUE skills so we doubled up some of the old ones... This is ridiculous. I am not getting a single skill that is doubled. Why? Coz I don't like getting fed junk, thank you very much. Least they could've done is come up with 30 more skills. This strategic bs is insulting. Factions has 270 or so new skills, not 300, so call it what it is and don't mislead the community. Like other people have said before me- there is 0 strategic benefit from having those skills doubled. 0. Now pay those skill "experts" a few more hours of work and give us 30 more UNIQUE skills. If this continues like that (along with the ridiculous faction system that is taking forever to unlock the skills I need) I am clearly going to switch to a different game. GG.

No, no, no. Gaile said there were 300 new skills. 300. And 30 repeats. That means they added in 330 skills, NOT 300. Or at least that's how I read it. Anyone have an exact skill list from this weekend yet?